Oleh Pryimachov, thai-boxing champion and soldier: "I can go longer distance in body armor and equipment, but I don’t have halo of protection either. Everyone is mortal. And this is war."

We met to record this interview when Oleh had just returned from the European Championships in Thai boxing, where he won.

- Did Russians take part in these competitions?

- Fortunately or unfortunately, not in my weight category, but in general, yes. But as independent athletes. That is, without the right to represent the country and use its symbols.

- How did they behave behind the scenes? Did you cross paths at all?

- We pretend not to notice them, and they pretend not to notice us. You can hardly hear them in the stands. The maximum they can chant in support of their athletes is their names. They don't even mention the country...

-Because it is forbidden?

- Yes. When we had face-to-face matches, people in the stands shouted in support of our athletes: "Ukraine!". And they, as I said, shouted only the name of their athlete.

I will say this: there is an unpleasant feeling of their presence at the competition. There's no way around it. Everyone understands where they came from, their Katsap language is heard. In general, unfortunately, there are a lot of Russians in Turkey. I discovered that planes from Russia fly there without any problems. This is one of the countries that accepts them openly. That's why there are a lot of them there.

- Did this have any impact on the competition?

- Not for the competition itself. Only the atmosphere. The competition was held in Antalya, where it was quite warm. They probably come there to spend the winter. Perhaps they don't have much of a choice. But I was surprised that there were so many of them there. The first few days, I somehow forced myself to ignore it and remove the negative. Because personally, I get angry and hateful when I even hear them speak with a distinctive accent. But my self-discipline is fine. I realise that I can't change anything on my own. The fact that they are allowed to compete is a global trend. The fact that I react aggressively to this will not change the situation at all. I can only make things worse for myself, the coaching staff and the country. That's why rational thinking and self-control work.

- In October, at a competition in Saudi Arabia, you defeated a Russian who was allowed to compete under a neutral flag. What were your feelings then?

- A sense of accomplishment. I did not consider any other option for myself than to win. I was ready to leave all of myself in the ring and do everything to win. Basically, I have the same attitude for every fight. If you want to be the best and get the highest steps of the podium, you have to prepare in this way. But in this case, the principle of additional motivation also worked. I had a lot of support from my guys. They knew who I was going to fight. They did heroic deeds at the front, and I had to do a heroic deed in the ring. The fight was tough. In the first round, the judges gave the advantage to him. I have to be honest: at that stage, he was better. But I won the next two rounds. Then this sense of responsibility fell off my shoulders. I was satisfied with the work I had done and glad to have achieved the result. The gold medal was not as important to me as the victory over the Russian. After all, even during the preparation, it became known that the Russian athlete had a licence in my weight category. I motivated myself by the fact that I had to beat him. I already have enough medals of various kinds. But at that tournament, I repeat, I had to beat the Russian.

-Youthen refused to shake hands with the Russian. How did this happenand what was his reaction?

- The practice is this: the judge raises the winner's hand and then brings the athletes to each other to shake hands. I thought he had been warned that we don't do that anymore. But he was unaware and was surprised when I snatched my hand away, turned around and started to walk out of the ring. The head coach stood up for me. They said that if the Russians had appealed, it could have resulted in disqualification, but there were no complaints or any provocative statements from them...

-Were you afraid?

- Who knows? But I had no desire or thoughts of shaking his hand.

-By the way, where was the judge from?

- From Europe. The judges should be aware of this. At the European Championships, they made conclusions and don't force our athletes to do such handshakes because they understand the situation.

- I pay attention to this to understand whether the attitude towards Ukraine abroad has changed now.

- If we are talking about athletes, I think not. At least I feel this way from my own experience. Almost the entire team from France came up to me - they expressed support, cheered for us, asked what the situation in Ukraine was like today. So did the Poles and Czechs. Of course, most people are sympathetic and understanding. It's nice that they care.

When it comes to politics, we see that it is becoming increasingly difficult to get help. Unfortunately. Maybe they are tired. There are certain reasons that need to be considered on a large scale.

- Does the fact that the level of aid is decreasing affect you as amilitary man in any way? Does it cause disappointment or anything like that?

- It is upsetting to realise that we are dependent on this help. All this is done for a reason. The countries from which we receive it probably want to lead us to this point. But we need to face the truth and understand that without it, it will be much more difficult for us. In particular, we will need to increase the involvement of human resources. And we are already fighting with extensive methods - with people and what we have been given at a minimum. If we had more of our own equipment and weapons, we, the military, would be much better off. But we have what we have. The situation is such that we are dependent on this assistance. So we have to ask and hope that we will be heard and responded to. But this is a matter of macro policy.

- At the beginning of the full-scale invasion,we did not have such help and support from the West. In fact, fewpeople there believed that we would survive...

- Few people in our country believed that there would be such a war. But it started. Our people heroically repelled the enemy with what they had. This is history...

- Let's talk about your personal story. How did the Honoured Master of Sports and world champion in Thai boxing end up in the TRO?

- When the full-scale invasion began, no one even thought about sports. Like everyone else back then, everything was turned upside down. It's impossible to prepare for this. Yes, I did my military service, but it was in 2009-2010 during Yanukovych's rule, when the army was only a name. Therefore, I had to acquire the necessary skills and defend the country. The first thing I did was take my family to the border. When I returned, we reunited with friends and acquaintances. People in Poltava, as well as in other cities, were making Molotov cocktails, building fortifications, and setting up guardrails. Everyone was doing what they could. We were on duty at the checkpoints and simultaneously trained in anticipation. No one knew how far they could go: whether they would reach Poltava or stop in Okhtyrka. We needed the knowledge and skills to use weapons and equipment skilfully, so we trained.

- As far as I remember, you were already able to shoot by then.

- Yes. I served in a special unit of the tax police, so I knew how to shoot small arms.

- In general,did your professional skills and abilities give you confidence in that situation ?

- You can't run away from a bullet or a piece of shrapnel, no matter who you are. I can go a longer distance with body armour and equipment, but I don't have a halo of protection either. Everyone is mortal. And this is war. It can come from anywhere. It depends on your fate. You have to accept this and adjust yourself accordingly.

- Did you then set yourself up to die at any moment?

- I clearly realised for myself that the war had come, times had changed. We did not know what would happen next. But when I chose the path I did, I understood everything. You can die or be disabled here. These are the realities. Everything happened in one moment, so I had to get my mind right from the start.

- I understand that you were not preparing for a full-scale invasion...

- No. I didn't believe it!

- But there were many reservations about this the day before.

- I'll tell you more: in December 2021, we were at the World Cup in Thailand. We were just having lunch when the news with English subtitles about Russian military training was on TV. At the same time, I was reading on various TV channels that Russia might invade Ukraine. At the same time, foreign intelligence was warning about it. But I could not believe that this was possible! I thought: there are conscious people living there. In the twenty-first century, is it possible to attack another country by giving up your life? And for what? For being told that you have to save someone there? My uncle and cousin live in Khabarovsk. They seem to be adequate. Every second or third Ukrainian in Russia has some relatives or friends. So I was thinking logically: how can they come to us with war? I couldn't believe it until the last moment, despite the media's hype. The invasion really came as a shock to me. I thought that in civilian life I was ready for any stressful situation. Sport toughens the character. Especially boxing. But when the full-scale war started, I realised that this is a completely different side of the coin. It is very scary. You wouldn't wish that on anyone. Especially if you have children for whom you are responsible and worry more than for yourself. As a mother, you also understand this...

- Yes, of course!By the way, are yours back?

- They are back. They were abroad for six months. They were sad. Children are the greatest happiness that can be. You want to see them grow up. And now this opportunity is being taken away from us. Our military, in addition to risking their lives, spend very little time with their families.

- You are also among them, as you are currently serving in the "Artan" special unit of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine...

- So I also feel this lack of time and appreciate every moment when I see them. But we have to accept what we have.

- How did you get to the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine?

- Thanks to sport, I know a lot of people. One of them was the commander of the special forces unit that was being formed at the time. I just had to make a decision about where to continue my service. We had been volunteers before. Therefore, we had to decide in which unit and where we would continue to take part in combat operations. Knowing the commander, I got in touch with him and asked if the guys and I could join the unit. I received a favourable response. After that, we passed a special test, and most of us were enrolled. That's how our service here began.

-I understand the specifics of your work.Tell me something about it that can be made public .

- These are non-standard, "interesting" and specific tasks all along the contact line and even in other places. They differ from the tasks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which are to stay and hold positions on a permanent basis. We are involved where more "jewellery" work is required, so to speak.

Let me tell you a story. We lost a guy during a mission. At night, when we met the enemy, a battle broke out, our group started to retreat, and he lost his way, hit an anti-personnel mine, got wounded and could not go on. We kept in touch with him on the radio and tried to pick him up, but he gave us the wrong coordinates. The enemy was approaching. We shouted at him to surrender. If he did, he would have been captured. But he said on the radio: "I will not be captured!" He fought to the last, in which he gave his life...

There were also operations on the water. You've heard of the 'Boyko towers'. So, during one of the missions, when enemy aircraft attacked our attack boats, a soldier with the call sign Conan fell overboard because there was a hit in the water nearby, and the shock wave simply threw him out. As the attack was underway, we were at full speed and could not return immediately. In addition, we did not immediately realise that one of the soldiers had fallen out. He was left in the sea. When we started searching, enemy drones were flying all the time. They continued for about 12 hours. They could not find him. Then we told the commander: "Let's stop searching, because there is no point - so much time has passed, he would not have survived." But he refused. We continued to search. Through the thermal imager, we saw a speck of heat in the water. We figured out that this was approximately the place where our fighter could have been. We waited for the moment when the aircraft patrol was changing, went out there and found Konan. He had spent 14 hours in the open sea! He survived! He was wearing a thermal suit and a life jacket. He told us that he was heading for one of the gas production rigs that was constantly on fire. He was swimming. He was talking to himself: "Let's go one more time!". He even fell asleep on the water. Then he was slowly rowing. When we got him out, he was talking normally. He survived all this, but he didn't break!

- There was also an interesting story about your company commander.

- And not just one! In Bakhmut, there was a case where he was thrown back after being shelled by aircraft. An icon fell on him and broke. He took out a cloth with an image (I don't remember which one) and put it under his bulletproof vest. He walked around with it. After some time, his group of five people went at night to rescue a wounded man who was under sniper fire. They got there normally. But on the way back, three of them got hit by a "petal". Two of them had their feet blown off, and the company commander's boot was torn off, but his leg remained intact. Although he had stepped on a "petal" - there was slate or something else.

There was also a case when they took out prisoners to pass them on. He was walking in front. A battle started. The Russians killed the prisoners. Those of us who were behind were able to retreat. But he could not. Everyone thought he was dead, because how could he survive there? We had already said goodbye. But in three days he appeared at our positions. The icon was also with him.

- So this is his talisman?

- Perhaps. There are definitely some forces above us.

- Do you have any amulets? For example, a cross or something .

- There is nothing like that. I say a prayer to myself before competitions, and in such cases, when it is very difficult, there is danger and you feel that not everything depends on you. You know, there are no atheists in a falling plane (smiles - O.M.). It's the same here.

- In sports, there are rules that athletes must follow. If they break them , they are disqualified. In war,there should also be rules, but we see the opposite in the behaviour of the Russians. For example, we can recall the treatment of civilians, particularly in the Kyiv region in the first months of the full-scale invasion. But they are not punished for this. How do you feel about this?

- The Geneva Conventions exist on paper, but in reality, as we can see, everything is different. No one can force the Russians to comply with them. Only creatures with limited intelligence and development can do what they do. There is no excuse for this. For example, I am sure that one can remain human even in war. Everyone is aware of what they are doing. And they raped and killed civilians. It's immoral and terrible!

- But, unfortunately, they are not weak in this war and far outnumber us...

- Indeed, they have a mobilisation resource - they have a lot of these "Vanyas". No matter how incapable or inept they are, they still take the lives of our people. And, unfortunately, these "Vanyas" do not end. Moreover, behind those who are sent to the front lines are qualified career military personnel who have been preparing for this war and will perform their duties until they receive the command: "Stand down!". Plus, they have a lot of weapons because they put the country on a military footing. We have a strong enemy. But the Ukrainian spirit is also strong - we are fighting back. Even though it is difficult for us to do so on our own. Especially when we don't have enough equipment and ammunition.

- I will quote you on this topic: "In war, just like in sports, those who are better prepared and equipped win." We have talked a little about how well equipped we are today. What kind of training do we have?

- If we had been prepared, we would have taken back our borders, won, and been living in a new reality that would have forced us to be ready for anything. And now you see the attitude. Especially among people who live in the rear. I come back from a mission, look at all this and realise that it's a different life. Of course, it's good that here it can be carefree at the expense of the guys who are fighting and holding the front line. But it's still a bit disheartening. Sometimes you wonder if we are doing the right thing when you see in some cities that society is not doing exactly what the country needs in a state of war. A certain habit has emerged that can have a negative impact on the state of affairs. Everyone should realise that things will not be the same as they were before. After this terrible page in history, the Ukrainian people must be prepared. It will not pass without a trace. As you said in our conversation before the interview: "Our children will read and study about this. They will perceive Russians differently, not the way we did when we were told about a brotherly people and that our grandfathers fought side by side. I also lived under certain illusions. Even in 2014-2015, the war was somehow not perceived on a full scale, and the state did not pursue a policy to understand the situation. Many people are talking about it now. That's why we couldn't believe that in eight years it could turn into such a large-scale war.

- Before we recorded the interview, wealso talked about the fact that no one can predict how long this war will last.. .

- Unfortunately, yes.

- But you are in the middle of the process . Do you see the light at the end of the tunnel?

- I don't see it now. Because the aggressor is only increasing the size of its army, doing everything to continue to put pressure on us and attack us. The dictator is running for another term...

- And we can already predict what the outcome of those elections will be.

- There is no intrigue here! But the most important thing is that Ukraine has already shown that its people are capable of self-sacrifice, can resist and love their country so much that they give their lives. However, much depends on us in this war, but not everything.

- But human resources are not unlimited. The military often repeat: "We may run out of time". But they emphasise that we must not leave this war as alegacy to our children.

- This is one of the most important motivations. If we are going through these difficult times, we must do everything we can to make them end. And our children should grow up prepared, strengthened and aware of what has happened. This "bloody scar" of history will remain for generations. That is why we will try to end this war. I think we are already doing everything we can. But, as I told you, not everything in this situation depends on us.

Olga Moskalyuk, Censor.NET

Photo by the author and provided by Oleg Priymyachov