"Burning Watermelon" for Putin, or How lighter for 450 UAH destroys Russian tanks
But little is said or written about the ammunition for these drones and those who produce it. Although they like to admire the videos in which a Ukrainian drone drops a devastating "gift" on the invaders.
Censor.NET met with the co-founder of "Burning Watermelon" - one of the relatively new Ukrainian producers of incendiary ammunition for military drones. Volodymyr, the name of our interlocutor, told us (without revealing important secrets) about his work and why there is still no unity and understanding among market participants.
-Volodymyr, as a manufacturer of ammunition for drones, how do you classify the drones themselves?
- Depending on how much ammunition is needed for each drone. For example, Mavic can lift and carry a 500-gram ammunition. Accordingly, any ammunition should be within this range.
- Does this mean that you are ordered the weight of the ammunition?
- Yes, we are given input information on what the grammage of the ammunition should be. We start from that. They already know what weight is optimal for a particular device. For example, in the Lyman area, due to the specifics of the terrain - there are forests there - they mostly work with Mavic. Hence the requirements for us.
- What are the requirements for manufacturers of such ammunition at the national level? The President spoke about a million fpv drones to be produced. And no one talks about the ammunition that these drones should carry.
- If the production of a million drones is planned, it means that at least a million - at least! - ammunition must be produced. And then we have a lot of questions. Who should produce them? Look, for a year now, the Russians have been producing explosives for drones in an industrial format. They have already implemented it, and it is already working! So the only question is: who will produce this million or more? We understand that fpv drones can be either disposable or reusable (bombers). And if it is reusable, then you need to focus on the number of flights that the drone makes. A reusable drone can carry the ammunition, reset it, and return. After that, the battery is replaced, and then another flight, another drop, another return. So, there should be at least x2, x3 of this ammunition.
And in general, about the number of drones to be produced. Even if it's not a million drones, let's set a realistic figure - even half a million. Out of these half a million, 250 will be reusable - then we will multiply these 250 by x2, x3 ammunition.
-Will such drones cost more?
- A 7-inch Fpv drone, which carries less weight and goes a shorter distance, is about $350-400. The ten-inch, which is the most powerful, is more expensive by $150, give or take, so it's somewhere around $550. It can also be used both reusable and one-way - it can carry heavier ammunition. This drone can work both as a kamikaze and as a reusable drone.
-Is there any approximate data on the Russians - how many reusable and how many disposable drones they have?
- There are no such direct statistics. However, we do get feedback from our guys; they say that the Russians use kamikazes more. Unlike our guys who, realizing that we have a limited number of drones, have learned to make them reusable. Not because we want to, but because we understand that we have fewer drones and more tasks. So in many ways, our specialists make the first steps, and the Russians then look at them and scale them up many times over.
- Do I understand correctly that the best, most experienced pilots are hired to use reusable drones?
- Yes, because a lot depends on the pilot. We can see this in the videos you see on telegram channels, where the level of professionalism of the operator is very important. A striking example is Krynky, the left bank of the Kherson region, where several units operate. One of the main ones is the Magyar Birds. You can see how they enter the manhole or fly between the trees in a filigree manner. It is very difficult. These are not easy tasks. And this is the level of a pilot. That's why there is a constant hunt for pilots. Not so long ago, there was a Himars strike at Russian pilots who were training in one of the areas.
- Similarly, the Russkies are looking for our pilots.
- Absolutely. That's why they won't even spare an S-300 for a pilot. This is just to make you realize the value of these people.
- Let's go back to the ammunition you produce. How do you classify them depending on the goals and objectives?
- Some munitions work like mines. For example, there is a well-promoted brand called Baba Yaha, as the ruscists call it. It is a large drone that carries a very large number and volume of mines that are dropped on the road. It is used at night. The mines are dropped on the road, and then the vehicles that are moving along this road are blown up; then there is the finish burning of the hit vehicles.
There are fragmentation munitions that are designed for infantry. There are also many videos of this type - when they drop even just grenades and everything else that works solely on infantry.
Then there are the cumulative shells that hit vehicles. They are aimed at hitting the equipment. If it also ignites, it's great, two in one.
-What is your ammunition designed for?
- For the finish burning of equipment. Why is this necessary? I think everyone understands this: if you don't finish burning the equipment, it will be pulled away, restored, and then it will return to the front again.
The main targets of the "Zapalnychka ("Lighter" - ed. note) munition are arson of observation posts, dugouts, ammunition, vehicles, lightly armored vehicles. There is also video evidence of the arson of tanks.
-What is the weight of the "Zapalnychka ("Lighter" - ed. note) - both in general and in terms of the actual incendiary substance?
- The total weight is 750 grams, of which 450 grams are the warfare agents.
-What effect can we expect from this "Zapalnychka ("Lighter" - ed. note)?
- Depending on the type of vehicle, its condition, and the exposed areas (open hatches, engine compartment).
- I mean, where does the operator have the opportunity to throw this "lighter"?
- That's right. Often, the guys just throw it into an open hatch. This is enough to be 90% sure that the equipment will be completely destroyed.
Dropping a "Zapalnychka ("Lighter" - ed. note) into the hatch of an enemy APC
- How much does it cost to produce one lighter?
- The cost of this product is 450 hryvnias. Maybe we are not yet that popular among ammunition manufacturers, because our main task is to scale the product as much as possible so that it goes to the masses; so that more operators can use this ammunition in their arsenal. We are not looking to somehow increase the price or increase our financial aspirations. Of course, we need to scale up. But our scale up is to ensure that after the certification of our product, we hope, we will have more massive orders. And the scaling process is not a problem for us. So, of course, our main goal is to have more of these products on the front line. So that people don't have to wonder if they have a reserve of ammunition. They took one lighter and started it. If it didn't work, you tried the second and third. You know, 450 hryvnias is not a lot of money. Spending 1,500 hryvnias on 3 "lighters" will destroy equipment worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. The math here is simple: according to our rough estimates, in a month and a half, our lighter destroyed $20 million worth of equipment.
-Who in the state of Ukraine licenses the production of ammunition and its active launch into production?
- There are currently two channels. On the one hand, it is the Ministry of Defence itself, and on the other hand, the Brave1 platform, which was launched to speed up all the processes of certification of these means. We want them to get to production and the frontline as soon as possible.
-So these are two very different areas. Do they work for Ukraine as a whole, but do they compete with each other?
- We are only at the initial stage of development now, so it would be wrong for me to analyze from my point of view. I understand why all these bureaucratic procedures are necessary. But on the other hand, when we are at war, I understand that it is needed against the clock. That's why this platform is made for those startups that have prospects and are needed at the front.
- In this context, are the Ministry of Defense and Brave1 like Ukrposhta and Nova Poshta, accordingly?
- It's true, as like as two peas!
-You are new to the market. How many explosive manufacturers are there in Ukraine in total? And what is the percentage of newcomers among them?
- I don't have any statistics. We certainly communicate with the main ammunition manufacturers. Our communication is advisory. We believe that the more professionals are involved in the creation of a product, the less time it will take to manufacture, improve and introduce it.
- Communication is advisory, but there is no real cooperation. What do you conclude from this?
- The conclusion is simple: our mentality, unfortunately, prevents drone ammunition manufacturers from communicating properly in many ways. Everyone wants to be as independent as possible; everyone believes that their product is the best. This is despite the fact that we have the same goal - to win the war. Victory over an enemy that has many times more resources, many times more infrastructure that is already working for results. And it is also an enemy that is very good at learning. We should not underestimate him; he is watching all our developments very closely.
- Do you have any statistics on the efficiency of your devices?
- Yes, we do. Before the onset of cold weather, there was only one. The weather change and cold weather had a great impact on the operation. So we have finalized this issue, but we are constantly working on improving the "lighter".
We also worked on the instruction manual with the ability to scan a QR code and switch to a video; vacuum packaging that protects the supply from moisture.
- Do you pay people a salary?
- Of course, we do. Especially since many people are currently out of work. Subsidies for IDPs in the country are very small. Therefore, our wage fund is included in the cost of production.
-How many "lighters" for drones do you currently produce?
- Up to 5 thousand per month.
- Once you have produced them, what's next? Do you have close ties with certain teams, or does it work differently?
- We now communicate through our closed telegram channel, which is subscribed mainly by drone operators or those related to these units. We post video reports of our "lighters" there.
- Well, this is logical - so that both current and potential customers can see how the device works in different frontline conditions.
- I would call it the "School of the Arsonist". Its purpose is for people who have no experience to watch and learn. If they have questions, they can ask us. We help, teach people to enjoy burning enemy equipment.
- But do you have an impulse to move on, leaving the "lighter" as one of your products?
- We are moving on. Our plans are simple: to make the products we already have (by improving and reducing the cost) more affordable for drone operators. Of course, after the appropriate certifications, so that the Ministry of Defense can avoid overpaying for products that make a much bigger difference. Therefore, if someone wants to make a better product at an even lower price, we are all for it.
- How does licensing work? Let's say a new company has come along and designed and manufactured a product. What's next?
- If I eliminate unnecessary detail, the Brave1 platform clearly describes all the steps of certification and registration of the ammunition itself.
- Even I, a dilettante, understand that for each drone with ammunition to be successful, there must be people to coordinate these actions. And the exchange of experience is also very important, especially in a situation where ammunition manufacturers are isolated. That is, no information bank is being collected, no collective conclusions are being drawn. We have a swan, a crayfish and a pike.
- That's right - you described it correctly, but nothing stands still and everything can change.
- Is there a chance to change the situation for the better? Perhaps the Ministry of Defense should have a working group composed of experienced and diplomatic people who know how to find contact and unite people with a common goal. There should also be some workshops and roundtables. Of course, this should be done very carefully, as we all remember the tragedy in Chernihiv.
- Let me put it this way: Maria Berlinska, in my opinion, plays a vital role in coordinating, organizing and lobbying for the drone industry. She is a really important person. In general, I think that based on these online roundtables that are already being held, we can organize separate sessions for ammunition manufacturers. Based on already created tools that are already working; that have been tested by time and safety. It can look like this: everyone is at their workplace, registration is underway, a person is checked in several stages to ensure that no outsider gets into a professional discussion during the war... And then there is communication.
In any case, I am sure that it is extremely difficult to find a moderator who can unite all these people. After all, everyone considers themselves the ultimate expert. Of course, they have the right to do so, because many have been working in this area for several years, and some have been doing so since 2014... And some, like us, have only been on the market for a year. Of course, in some ways, we are treated like young men. But the question is about the result. Some people are more efficient, have good pre-war experience, and can set up the process. And the most important thing is scaling, product price and quality.
- By the way, what did you do before the full-scale war?
- I managed work processes in the printing establishment of a large publishing house. In fact, we have several people involved in coordinating the processes. Each of them had their own production before the war; each had their own experience and skills. And thanks to the fact that each of us contributes and is responsible for his or her link, we get quick results on time, not in the format of "let's do it after the holidays."
- Where do you get the money for production? Even if the cost of production is cheap.
- Each of the partners has their own business, which currently brings in small profits, but some kind of stable income. Therefore, everyone contributes to this business. We see the prospect, we see the result. The best result is a video report when enemy equipment is on fire. Believe me, nothing more is needed. When you see that one "lighter" that costs 450 hryvnias has burned down an armored personnel carrier that costs 500-600 thousand dollars, it is a pleasure.
- You said that the Mavic carries a minimum of 500 grams. What other weights do you have in your assortment?
- 500g, 750g, 1200g, 1500g. 2000g and 2500g. It is also possible to additionally equip them with magnetic clips. Here is the entire assortment. We already produce everything I have listed.
- Quantitatively speaking, what is the current need for ammunition at the front? And how much does it actually have of this need?
- Any guy who works will tell you that there are never too many drones. When people go to assault a building or a forest plantation, they need to have a minimum set of ammunition with them. No one knows how much you will use up... A reserve is always better than not having one. So, of course, any calculation should be in terms of the number of drones and the amount of ammunition. Because if the drone operator does not have enough ammunition of various types (not only our products), he will be limited in his activities. Conversely, the more diverse the choice of ammunition and its quantity, then it will be better.
Of course, each unit has its own needs and specifics of use. Some use 5-7 kamikaze drones a day, while others can use dozens of them. In addition, we must not forget about efficiency and always look at the number of destroyed vehicles or targets they identify. If a kamikaze drone destroys one soldier for $300-400, this is certainly a result. But the problem is how many drones we have, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, how many people they have. So if the projectile is fragmentation and can kill 2-3 katsaps at once, even make them 300th, it will be much more effective. But again, it must have this projectile. And again, much depends on the situation in a particular section of the frontline. Every day the situation changes very much. I watch a lot of videos of different ammunition being used. I analyze them and even try to reach out to those units that do not have our product. Our task is to ensure that they can effectively finish burning the equipment that is already hit or static. Yes, after the initial hit, it may not go, but it can be repaired, and tomorrow or the day after that it can be in service. You see, that's all. That's why I really regret that I don't have direct contacts with some units that I could reach out to and establish communication with. This is definitely what is missed
- At the end of this interview, we will leave the units with your contact information so they can contact you. But my question is not about that, it's about the need for coordination between explosive munitions manufacturers. If you were offered to be the person who would be delegated the authority to unite the participants of the explosive ammunition market, would you agree? The fact that your organization is a newcomer to the market would only contribute to the overall goal. After all, large competing players are more willing to entrust the role of arbitrator (or coordinator) to a smaller player...
- I am not sure that the major players will agree to this. I see too many situations in which there seems to be no potential conflict - and yet it arises out of nowhere.
By the way, we have a special offer for drone operators specializing in drops and now combat drones. We're giving away a set of our lighters for free with a video report on their use. Those who show the best results can continue using this formula. More details can be found here.
-We talk so much about how Ukraine is scoring points in this war over horizontal ties, over coordination. And here, according to your story, this coordination is almost absent.
Let me give you an example. We have the "Charity Management" foundation (uprav_blago - Instagram page), which was launched to think through the logistics of cars for the military as much as possible. What was the idea? To prevent people who organize fundraisers, whether they are charities or NGOs, or just volunteers, from overpaying just because they are not competent in this area.
Having partners in the UK, we have made the tool as transparent as possible to show what the fair price and logistics costs are. As for the repairs, depending on the car, it's individual, because they are not all new. We packed everything and showed how it works. And still, there is a question: why is it wrong?
- It's a typical thing: there will always be dissatisfied people.
- So we proposed an algorithm of actions. We have an Instagram page where we constantly show the process itself in stories: from the car itself when it is found, to a good price, how much time a person spends, delivery, repair - all these stages. So that people can see what a big process it is, which can take at least two months or even longer.
You know, there is a lot of fraud everywhere now. Whether it's buying drones or buying cars. And to ensure this link, there must be players to whom you can turn assuredly to people will help you, even with advice. A lot of military people call: please tell us how the process works. And you tell them, and it's not a problem. When a person is competent, he or she may not step on the typical rake anymore. When people come and complain about scammers: we give them a down payment...
- There should be a certain aggregator site with a clear filter and experienced, reputable partners.
- There is only one problem. Charitable foundations can donate for free. The purchase of the car itself is separate. So there are nuances: one unit needs people who search for cars, find a fair price, and deliver them (this is a separate part). Then there is a charitable foundation that controls all these processes and guarantees that there will be no failure at any stage. Even if there are any breakdowns, they will control it, deliver it anyway, put it in good condition, and only then hand it over to the military or military unit.
-What else do you dream about to make your work as effective and useful as possible for Ukraine during the war?
- About involvement. So that every person who lives in Ukraine or abroad and wants to get involved in some good deed with clear results always has the opportunity to do so
- It's even cooler that you have a specific - and small - price for your "lighter". Because a reader of Censor.NET who donates money to you, 450 UAH or less, will be able to say to himself: hooray! I paid for one lighter. Or half of it. Or a quarter. And looking at your videos, he will even be able to imagine how his "lighter" will burn completely a Russian armored personnel carrier or pickup truck...
- It doesn't matter who donated how much - there would be a will. I want to express my gratitude to those people who help us. For example, there are people who donate some of their raw materials for free or for testing. And they get a lot of pleasure from it.
Attention: If you would like to follow the production process of "Burning Watermelon", please see the information below:
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Yevhen Kuzmenko, Censor.NET
Photos and video: "Burning Watermelon"