Author:  Tetiana Bodnia

Vladyslav Hornod, explosives expert: "They make decoys to distract people. If person sees mines laid out, he thinks that no one bothered to bury them here."

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Vladyslav Hornod is a police explosives expert who was one of the first to go to de-mining the de-occupied territories, first in Kyiv and then in Kharkiv regions as part of the combined units.

 But we talked not only about the decoys set by Russian sappers but also about the rehabilitation and return to society of people who had lost limbs as a result of severe injuries. Vladyslav was seriously injured while working in the Kharkiv region. His left leg was amputated up to the knee.

Vlad has already undergone prosthetics and rehabilitation. Now he works in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, helping war victims and their families.

He also continues to play sports. And at the end of last year, he took part in the ICO Combat Self-Defense World Championships in the UK and won silver.

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Vladyslav Hornod

- Vladyslav, before the beginning of the full-scale war, you worked in the explosives department of the police. Did you ever go to the Donbas war zone before that?

- There were rotations of explosives experts in Luhansk and Donetsk regions, but it was more of the same work as at the local level. If there was a call, an explosive object was found somewhere, we would go and defuse it. And during a full-scale war, our service is more focused on de-mining.

- In February and March 2022, it was very disturbing that explosive devices could be installed even in cities where there were no hostilities. For example, there were a lot of checkpoints in Kyiv, but we were still afraid that some subversive groups could infiltrate. Did your service often receive appeals back then? 

- Yes, very often. And it was not only in Kyiv, it was all over Ukraine. The explosive ordnance disposal team was turning to eleven.

- You first worked in Zakarpattia. When did you go to demine the de-occupied territories?

- In March 2022, when the enemy began to be knocked out of the Sumy, Kyiv, and Chernihiv regions, consolidated units were formed to clear the territories of mines.

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- Did you join these units voluntarily or were you sent by order, like on a business trip?

- We were sent on a business trip, but people made their own decisions about who would go in the first units. Our team was very motivated. Everyone understood that they were doing useful work for their country and for the people. There was even a problem because everyone wanted to be the first to leave. Someone had to stay.

- What cities did you see first?

- Bucha, then the airport in Gostomel. It took us several months to clear it of mines. There were a lot of shells, mines, grenades.

- Did they leave traps behind?

- Yes, there were several anti-personnel mines of remote action. There were PMN-4 anti-personnel mines. In the Chornobyl zone, where we also worked, they also mined with anti-personnel and anti-tank mines.

We found it in the forest, in houses. Where they were fortifying, the Russians mined everything they could. And when they retreated, they tried to do as much damage as possible.

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- So that when people go into their homes, they blow themselves up, do they?

- Yes, they do. I think they understood that not only the military and police would be entering the liberated territories, but civilians would also be returning home. They wanted to do as much damage as possible.

- I was told that they even put explosives under cups. One such trap was defused in the Kyiv region.

- Each sapper has his imagination. A person can mine in such a way that no one else can. If you have a good imagination, you can invent any trap.

- Based on what you saw, how would you describe the level of the sappers? Were they professionals?

- When buildings are mined, it is mostly done by professional sappers. And to place anti-tank and anti-personnel mines, you don't need to study much, anyone can do it.

- After the Kyiv region, where else have you demined territories?

- In the Kharkiv region. After the counter-offensive. There were many more mined with anti-personnel and anti-tank mines. There were many so-called "petal" mines. If we compare the volume of mines in Kyiv and Kharkiv regions, the Kharkiv region was much more mined.

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- One of the soldiers who fought in the Kharkiv region said that he hit an anti-tank mine that was hidden in the asphalt. Either there was a corrugation there or they made it intentionally, and then they put the mine there and covered it up. They worked very well there. He said the road looked perfect. Did you have something similar?

- The most memorable thing in the Kharkiv region was one of the fields where there were a lot of mines in a row, about four dozen of them. And one of the anti-tank mines was placed in such a way that it was completely invisible. The rest of the mines were placed on top so that they could be seen.

- Was it intended for a person to walk and step on the camouflaged one?

- Such a mine reacts to a certain weight. If a person steps on it, nothing will happen, it has to be a vehicle that drives over it.

They make deceptions so that people are distracted. If a person sees the mines laid out, he thinks that nobody bothered to bury them here. But one was buried so that no one would see it and so that it would be driven over.

- Do they also mine hospitals and schools?

- Mostly they put tripwires there. Mostly they tried to mine the buildings of the SSU and the National Police as much as possible to make it difficult to clear them of mines.

- Why is it difficult? Are there a lot of mines or are they diverse?

- There are many of them and they are different. You don't know what to expect. That's why you have to constantly learn during the war. We had never experienced such a scale of mining before. Unfortunately, we had to learn from our own mistakes. Many of our colleagues were blown up.

- Vladyslav, you were also blown up by a mine. How did it happen?

- It was in the Chuhuiv district of Kharkiv region. We cleared the field where the enemy positions were. We also made deceptions, placed anti-tank mines and very well-placed anti-personnel mines. They also threw shrapnel on top to prevent the metal detector from working. That's why it made a sound more like shrapnel than a mine. And when I was approaching the mine, I was using a prodder and a metal detector, but I stepped on one of the mines with my left foot. The foot was completely torn off. I was immediately tourniqueted and evacuated. Since the area was impassable for a car, we had to get to an ambulance. They carried me for about 3 kilometers, then a farmer helped us and gave us a ride on his tractor. Then there was the local hospital, the Kharkiv military hospital, and then the Ministry of Internal Affairs hospital. Then - prosthetics. At first, a temporary prosthesis was made in Hungary, and after a while I received a permanent prosthesis in the United States. I underwent rehabilitation. And last summer I returned to the explosive service in the Zakarpattia region. Later, he was assigned to the Ministry of Internal Affairs as a chief specialist of the Department for Work with Victims and Their Families. These are the wounded, family members of the missing and the dead. I try to help them, using my own example to show them how to deal with such a situation and how to rehabilitate as quickly as possible.

- When I first went to Donbas, my biggest fear was stepping on a mine. Didn't you have such a fear?

- There must always be fear. Because if you have no fear and you walk through minefields, you need to change your profession. Something is wrong with you.

- How old are you?

- 34.

- A young man with his whole life ahead of him. What did you think about when you realized that things would never be the same again?

- I thought about how to continue living, how to adapt. Then I started looking for options to return to society as soon as possible, to undergo rehabilitation and prosthetics.

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- Was there any depression or apathy?

- There was a feeling of uncertainty.

- Was it scarier than stepping on it?

- Yes, because you don't know what's next. And then I set a goal for myself, started looking for different rehabilitation centers, centers where prosthetics are made. At the stage of prosthetics and rehabilitation, I started setting new goals for myself. I decided that I would continue to play sports. And not just do it, but compete in competitions in the category of ordinary people to show that disability does not begin with the loss of a limb, but with the head. If you think in your head that you are disabled, then you will be. If you don't, you can do what other people do. You just need to adapt, do some things differently. But if you do it differently, the result will be the same as other people.

- What kind of sport did you do before you were injured?

- I was a mixed martial artist, winning championships in Ukraine, Europe and the world. I decided to continue to show what I could do. Because, unfortunately, there is discrimination against people with disabilities in our society. Although I don't generally perceive these people as "disabled," I believe that they are people with increased needs. These people just need to adapt to life differently. They will be just as useful to society, they will be innocuous-looking. And if we show by our example how to adapt to life and that it is possible not only to compete with ordinary people but also to win competitions, more people will realize that there is nothing wrong with losing a limb. No one made this choice, it just happened, everyone was doing their job. This does not mean that we are inferior in any way.

- I believe that people who were injured during the war should not make excuses at all.

- But if we do nothing, nothing in society will change. That's why we need to show as much as possible how people develop themselves in different areas.

- Can you tell us about your training methodology?

- In the beginning, everything was trial and error. I tried to do everything I had done before. If it didn't work, I tried to do it differently until I got the result. That is, I practiced my technique, kicks, punches. If I failed, I changed my approach. I tried to use my left foot less in some technical elements. Then I found my "golden mean" when I succeeded and there was no discomfort with what I was doing.

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- With what did you begin?

- I started working out my abs, back, and arms. Over time, I added various exercises where I could use my legs: Squats, small jogging steps. And then I moved on to practicing kicks a punching bag, on Hook&Jab Pads.

- Are you kicking the punching bag with your hands or your feet?

- I also try it with my feet. I just used my right foot more. Now I am practicing more fighting techniques. I go to training in a fight club, where some regular visitors and people have been wounded. Everyone is in the same group. We practice different techniques and adapt as well.

- Perhaps people who have been injured and cannot continue to serve but are physically fit should be made instructors for the civilian population, shouldn`t they?

- This is a good idea. But I believe that there should always be an individual approach. If a person has been seriously injured but is a good leader, why should they be turned into an instructor? He will be more useful as a leader. Including on the battlefield. Therefore, in my opinion, one should be given the right to choose, there should be no discrimination against a person because he or she was injured. They should decide for themselves where they see themselves. If he can and wants to be an instructor, so let him. If he wants to lead personnel and can, let him be the head of a certain unit.

- So, people need to be brought back into society, don`t they?

- Yes. The main thing is a person's desire.

- And a management that is ready to give them a position.

- In my opinion, they showed on the battlefield that they deserve to be treated at least as equals. They don't need any better treatment, the main thing is to be treated as equals.

- How important are scholarship programs that allow for further development for such adaptation in society?

- This is very important because a person has a goal, he or she can develop themselves in another area, not just where they were before the war. This gives a person many opportunities.

- What do the guys who go to the fighting club with you do?

- Some are in the military, others are working in civilian jobs. All of them have found themselves.

- You were the only participant with a prosthesis to win a prize at the ICO Combat World Championships in the UK. You won a silver medal. How were you perceived?

- I would say, more positively than negatively. Abroad - in Europe, the United States - people have a different mentality. They treat you with respect. There was no skepticism and no one made any concessions. Everything has to be fair. They believe that if a person does not ask for help, then there is no need to impose help on them, to make concessions. Because it is wrong. If a person has chosen this path, they have to go all the way, regardless of the result.

- Are you annoyed by the easing of restrictions?

- I think everyone gets annoyed after being wounded.

- You do not run a training session for others, do you?

- No, I don't. Before I was injured, I coached the Zakarpattia region's Combat ICO team. Now I want to show by my example that life goes on. You just need to realize that it will not be like before. But it can be better if you try and work in a certain direction, go towards your goal.

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- Can you tell us what your work with war victims and their families involves?

- We try to meet the needs of our heroes, the military and their families as much as possible, and help them with any issues. From preparing various documents and benefits to referring them for further rehabilitation. We have signed memoranda of cooperation with various charitable foundations and the State Employment Service.

We have developed various leaflets so that people know what to do. Where our support is needed, we provide it.

We have to make sure that while a person is being treated, everything necessary has already been done (War veteran status, investigation reports, etc.).

If any of their relatives need help, representatives of our sectors at the local level try to solve these issues.

- Is this legal support?

- It's more social.

- I wrote about one of the National Guard soldiers who died at Azovstal. He was survived by his mother, wife and little daughter. They lived in Mariupol, of course, and lost everything there, and had to go abroad as refugees. All his family has is a certificate of his death. They have no money to rent a house, so they cannot return. How can this family be helped, what can they expect?

- Such a family will receive everything they are entitled to by law. If a soldier is killed, his family member receives UAH 15 million. And if there are problems with this, we try to solve them as much as possible. We communicate with their units. At the level of the ministry, we keep this issue on hold until it is resolved. No one leaves anyone alone with their problems.

- Are there any arrears in these payments, any priority?

- We do not deal with finances directly. If there are problems, we write letters to the relevant departments, and until the issue is fully resolved, we keep it under control.

- Do you help people who have been injured or lost limbs to return to society?

- Yes, we help them with employment. We offer them jobs in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If they want to continue to serve, there is a certain list of positions. Border guards, the National Guard, and the State Emergency Service, where they can work after being wounded.

- Do many people apply?

- No, we mostly call them ourselves and offer them. The initiative comes from us.

- How do they respond?

- It depends. Some want to work, want to serve further. Some say they are not ready to work yet. There are people who refuse, saying that they have already found themselves in civilian life and do not need help in finding a job.

- Does it happen that you need the help of psychologists to communicate with a person?

- There are such cases, but they are actually few. As practice shows, people are strong in spirit.

- Vladyslav, did you have any global dream before the full-scale war?

- There was no global dream, there was a regional one (smiles - author). I already said that after work I coached the ICO Combat team, and I had a dream to train the most world champions from the Zakarpattia region.

But now my place is here, I need to help as much as I can. And time will tell what will happen next.

Tetiana Bodnia, Censor.NET